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Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offers for keyword"?

Follower ✭ ☆ ☆
# 1
Follower ✭ ☆ ☆

Hello, considering that i have to create some ads for the keyword "red ball", should i create two distinct ad groups for the keywords:

  • red ball
  • red ball offers

so that in the second ad group i can optimize all the ads by writing "Offers for Quality Red Balls" instead of just "Quality Red Balls" ?

 

I think that by using two different ad groups i will get better performance. But i will have to create a lot more ad groups.

 

Do you think the effort will be worth or is it just an overkill?

By using a single ad group do you think adwords will be smart enough to show the "Offers for Quality Red Balls" ad when "red ball offers" is being searched and the "Quality Red Balls" ad when the simple "red ball" keyword is searched?

 

Thanks for your help!

1 Expert replyverified_user
Marked as Best Answer.
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Accepted by topic author Yari L
September 2015

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Badged Google Partner
# 2
Badged Google Partner

Hi Yari,

 

It's very likely that a dedicated adgroup for "red ball offers" will perform better, whether it's worth the trouble (setting up, tracking and maintaining) depends on the gain of course and is up for you to decide. An important factor in that decision is the number of impressions "red ball offers" gets. If that's relative high then it might be worth having a dedicated adgroup, if it's relatively low you could choose to leave it as is.

 

It's likely that the "red ball offers" adgroup will be chosen over the "red ball" adgroup for all queries including "offers" (see this article on how similar keywords are selected) but it's probably better to force the decision by adding "red ball offers" (without quotes) as a negative keyword to the "red ball" adgroup. (more on negative keywords) Such a negative keyword would force all "red ball offers" queries to go to the "red ball offers" adgroup.

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Rising Star
# 3
Rising Star
Hi Yari,

In addition to what Ken has mentioned here just wanted to say that while it is a very good & a valid idea to target offers as a theme you will have to make peace with the possibility that your CPC's will hike for the duration of the offer.

This is because no matter what the precaution you take, there is a good chance that your keywords would compete against each other since essentially both the themes are very much the same.

Also, as Ken mentioned add in 'Quality Red Balls' as negative in your offers adgroup, rather than this, I would suggest you only put 'offer' in phrase as negative to your offers adgroup. I generally make sure that none of my targeted keywords are not part of any negatives added to the campaign or adgroup to avoid having any negatives block my keywords. Other than this, also put 'Red balls' in exact as negative to your offers campaign ( AdWords may give you notification of a negative blocking your keyword but it should not be possible).

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

Shashank

Cheers,
Shashank Singh, AdWords Rising Star |
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Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Participant ✭ ✭ ✭
# 4
Participant ✭ ✭ ✭
Hi Shashank,

I must disagree with you here.

Firstly there are ways you can ensure that your keywords do not compete against each other without worry (proper use of match typing and negatives). Good structure ensures that potentially competing terms will never trigger simultaneously.

Secondly, competing keywords in an account does not affect CPC. Your keywords do not both enter the auction. Only one keyword will enter the auction from your account and thus you will not be competing against yourself in the true sense of the word. This competition between your keywords take place pre auction and has no effect on CPC, ceteris paribus.

Also with respect to negatives. Negative broad operates differently to normal broad match. So adding 'red ball offers' as a negative keyword will never block red ball. As negative broad match operates exactly like broad match modified. So only if someone types in all 3 terms in their keyword will they be blocked from that ad group. There is no danger here of loosing traffic at all, especially if you have another ad group targeting that negative keyword.

Hope this clears some things up!

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

[ Edited ]
Rising Star
# 5
Rising Star

Hi Clynton,

 

By possible rise in CPC's, I meant instances where you may want to show your offer ads more often than your normal 'Red ball' ad copies. In such cases, you will have to choose between the two themes and since you do not want your normal 'red balls' theme to die down you will not drop their bids and nor will you raise the bids for your offer theme keywords so high that only they get triggered and show ads on the SERP and not your normal red ball theme ad copies.

 

To make this more clear, let me take an example here. Suppose I have a keyword 'red ball' in an adgroup that has been performing well for me for quite sometime now and I add another keyword 'red ball offers' in the offers adgroup which has been recently added. Since the 'red ball' ad group has a lot of history in the account, it would be the ideal candidate to get triggered for a user query. Due to this, it is very much possible that the 'red ball' adgroup will eat up majority of the traffic for the theme and not let the offers adgroup get triggered most of the time ( I have seen this phenomenon occur in my accounts). To ensure that your offer adgroup receives the traffic it should, you will have to increase the bids for its keywords here which could turn out to be higher than the bids for the 'red ball' adgroup thus increasing your CPC's for the theme.

 

While I understand and agree that proper structuring & correct use of matchtypes can ensure that there isn't any internal competition between keywords. I personally have seen some rise in internal competition when I have ran keyword themes similar to each other under the same campaign (something similar to the case mentioned here with targeting the offer themes).

 

Does this make sense? Or is it just an isolated event that occurred with me?

 

Shashank

Cheers,
Shashank Singh, AdWords Rising Star |
Did you find any helpful responses or answers to your query? If yes, please hit "Like" or "Accept as Solution"

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Participant ✭ ✭ ✭
# 6
Participant ✭ ✭ ✭
Hi Shashank,

But that is what Ken M was talking about. You can avoid the whole situation you are talking about through the use of negatives. You will not have to adjust your CPC's in order for the new ad group to get traffic. If there is a justifiable reason for splitting 2 ad groups with a similar theme, then using embedded negatives will ensure that the correct traffic goes to the correct ad group. If there is not enough traffic being sent to the new ad group, and you have set everything up correctly then clearly there was no justifiable reason to split them up in the first place.

If you find your ad groups are competing against each other despite negatives being used then you need to use more restrictive match types are the correct negatives. Provided there is 1 distinct difference between ad groups then they should never compete (even if that difference is simply an additional keyword).

For example I may have a product orientated ad group, I will then create a duplicate ad group keyword wise and append +buy onto those keywords. As I often find that simply adding buy to a keyword or phrase changes the intent and you may find that different landing pages are needed as well as different ads, highlighting different USP's. despite these ad groups having the exact same keywords besides the addition of +buy there has never been any internal competition or mismatching between them.

If there is internal competition, which can occur despite your best planning, then this is usually to a 'hole' in your structure. Using the above example, there would be competition of I just appended broad match 'buy' as opposed to +buy. This would cause internal competition and was an oversight in the creation of the campaigns. So if you are finding this, then I would suggest going through the SQR and trying to identify where it is happening and then identify why.


Hope this helps.

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Follower ✭ ☆ ☆
# 7
Follower ✭ ☆ ☆

Thank you all for your precious tips and considerations. Many valuable information for me on this thread.
If i create two ad groups:

  • red ball
  • red ball offers

adding "offers" as negative keyword in the first ad group should be enough to trigger the correct ad group with the desired keyword, correct?

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Badged Google Partner
# 8
Badged Google Partner

Hi Yari,

 

Indeed, adding offers or red ball offers as negatives to the 1st ad group would do the trick. In general: add the keywords of the 2nd adgroup as negative keywords to the 1st adgroup.

 

Take into consideration that a negative broad match keyword will actually behave as a negative modified broad match keyword. (More on negative keywords)

Re: Same or different ad group for "keyword" and "Offer

Follower ✭ ☆ ☆
# 9
Follower ✭ ☆ ☆
Thank you very much. You have all been very helpful!