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Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Visitor ✭ ✭ ✭
# 1
Visitor ✭ ✭ ✭

Can anyone speak to First Page Bids, and Average Position. 

 

Example: 

Date range is "Yesterday"

Keywords are identified as Below First Page Bid, however average positions are between 1.6 - 2.7

 

If keywords are not making it to the first page, as the Below First Page Bid notification is indicating, how is the Average Position so high?

3 Expert replyverified_user
2 ACCEPTED SOLUTIONS

Accepted Solutions
Marked as Best Answer.
Solution
Accepted by topic author Kayla W
September 2015

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Top Contributor
# 5
Top Contributor
I have determined long ago, that first page bid estimate is inaccurate, and the estimate has a huge margin of error. I use the raw data given by the keyword planner, as a "first shoot" for the bid.
Moshe, AdWords Top Contributor , Twitter | Linkedin | Community Profile | Ad-Globe
Did you find any helpful responses or answers to your query? If yes, please mark it as the ‘Best Answer’

View solution in original post

Marked as Best Answer.
Solution
Accepted by topic author Kayla W
September 2015

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Follower ✭ ✭ ✭
# 8
Follower ✭ ✭ ✭
Definitely agree here. I think it's easy to forget that the system audits and returns your keyword a value in many auctions and in sometimes those auctions occur faster than you realize (especially in cases of extremely high volume searches). So, theoretically the environment is completely different each time the auction runs. The number of other advertisers, the actual search query, the ad called, your position, the inclusion or ad extensions, mobile, not mobile, the match type triggered, etc. These all ultimately play a role in your performance and thus become influences on your results. That's why it's typically recommended to look at bigger data sets. Some of that gets normalized and a trend can be established. First Page Bid Estimate is a big data calculation. So, while it's not always right it makes for a good signal. Some might say Google wants you and many other advertisers to overshoot that figure simply because at the end of the day it will increase the amount of money they generate.

In the case you point out above, this is what's happening: "Your bid is too low to show on the first page for many search results" and your data is saying, "When you do get to show up for searches your position is high." As Adrian pointed out, impression share is going to be a good indication for why you're receiving that message even though you have good position when you do show up.

View solution in original post

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Top Contributor
# 2
Top Contributor

Hi Kayla, great question.

 

The "first page bid" is an estimate and, in truth, it's an estimate that can often be somewhat wide of the mark.  It's also possible that there is a large variation in CPC costs throughout the day/days of the week so, for example, if you're bidding $1, between 9am and 5pm that bid could be below what would be required to show on the first page but between 4am and 7am, it's enough and that's where you're accruing clicks and where you Ad postiion data is coming from.

 

It's probably worth looking at your Dimensions tab - Time -> Hour of Day and examining the average position reported there.

 

Jon

 

AdWords Top Contributor Google+ Profile | Partner Profile | AdWords Audits

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

[ Edited ]
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 3
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

Hello,

 

I have such keywords in their own ad group. Here is some data from today, while they receive some traffic it is below their potential.

 

Funny thing is that some of them show over 10-20% impressions share even if they are below first page bid and some of them even convert and have avg. cpc. much lower than the recommended "first page bid" .

 

below-first-page-bid-keywords.png

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Visitor ✭ ✭ ✭
# 4
Visitor ✭ ✭ ✭

I took a look at the Dimensions - Time > Hour of Day.  Clicks appear to be spread pretty evenly throughout the day, with low CPC. Adwords is telling me all keywords in this group should be at around $1.30 for first page bid. However this view is telling me that is not the case. They seem to be achieving first page position throughout the day with a much lower cost.  I'm a newbie so feel free to correct my interpretation of this view, if you something something different, please share. 

 

example.PNG

Marked as Best Answer.
Solution
Accepted by topic author Kayla W
September 2015

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Top Contributor
# 5
Top Contributor
I have determined long ago, that first page bid estimate is inaccurate, and the estimate has a huge margin of error. I use the raw data given by the keyword planner, as a "first shoot" for the bid.
Moshe, AdWords Top Contributor , Twitter | Linkedin | Community Profile | Ad-Globe
Did you find any helpful responses or answers to your query? If yes, please mark it as the ‘Best Answer’

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Explorer ✭ ✭ ☆
# 6
Explorer ✭ ✭ ☆
Kayla,

I'm not going to argue on technical details because it's out of my league. However, I do have a feel for adwords - and the first page bid can be affected by all sorts of things, including others bidding higher at certain times of day.

My other thought is to look at the ratio of click through rates and cost per click, which is roughly inverse - although the data is pretty sketchy at the moment. My point is that if you can grab eyeballs on the search page, you'll get more attention. That means clicks - and whatever else, that's a positive action for you. Plus Google rewards good CTRs - and again this is a feeling, but my hunch is that it has more to do with CTR than QS when it comes to ad rank. Getting a little provocative means you'll get attention (as I found out today ... but in another marketing context however! Boy did it cause a stir ... the point is it brought me a large slice of traffic. Pity they weren't buyers, but the point was demonstrated).

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 7
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

@Kayla W

 

Please check the Segment / Device in your keywords tab. I forgot to mention that this "below first page bid" appears in my "ad groups for mobiles",  where I deliberately lower the bid to avoid Ads on Desktops and use the +300% increase of bids for Mobiles.

Unfortunately the interface only displays "first page bid estimates" for desktop+tablet impressions.

 

Here is where you can find this data, and after selecting it, under each keywords you will see the clicks and impressions divided by desktops/mobiles/tablets. In my case the "good avg. pos. " is on mobiles.

 

device-segmenting.png

Marked as Best Answer.
Solution
Accepted by topic author Kayla W
September 2015

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Follower ✭ ✭ ✭
# 8
Follower ✭ ✭ ✭
Definitely agree here. I think it's easy to forget that the system audits and returns your keyword a value in many auctions and in sometimes those auctions occur faster than you realize (especially in cases of extremely high volume searches). So, theoretically the environment is completely different each time the auction runs. The number of other advertisers, the actual search query, the ad called, your position, the inclusion or ad extensions, mobile, not mobile, the match type triggered, etc. These all ultimately play a role in your performance and thus become influences on your results. That's why it's typically recommended to look at bigger data sets. Some of that gets normalized and a trend can be established. First Page Bid Estimate is a big data calculation. So, while it's not always right it makes for a good signal. Some might say Google wants you and many other advertisers to overshoot that figure simply because at the end of the day it will increase the amount of money they generate.

In the case you point out above, this is what's happening: "Your bid is too low to show on the first page for many search results" and your data is saying, "When you do get to show up for searches your position is high." As Adrian pointed out, impression share is going to be a good indication for why you're receiving that message even though you have good position when you do show up.

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Visitor ✭ ✭ ✭
# 9
Visitor ✭ ✭ ✭
Exactly, I was looking for the search amount of particular keyword en Keyword Planner as well, and there was no search fot this KW during the 1 year...then looking at the first page bid estimate CPC was 0,86€ ...hmm...still don´t know how can be such a estimate inaccurate

Re: Below First Page Bid, But First Page Position

Community Manager
# 10
Community Manager
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