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Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 1
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I'm working on an adwords account that has been running the same ad for several years.  Queries consitetnly brought the ad up in positions 1-3.  But the keywords were all phrase-matched and we were spending a fortune bringing a lot of traffic to our site that really wasn't interested in our product.   Rather than play with negative keywords or start changing the phrase-matched keyword to exact on the old ad group I started a new ad group that used  the same ad but had all exact keywords. That way I can experiment in the new ad group and still have the old ad group, unchanged, to fall back on. But I notice now that a search for one of the exact keywords brings the ad up in position 6 instead of 1-3.  It seems that the ad - the same one that's run for several years -  now a brand new ad to Google that Google doesn't trust yet, so it's starting the ad out ad position 6. The exact keyword is an even closer match to the ad than the old phrase-matched keywords so I don't think a mismatch between keyword and ad is the problem.

 

I'm just wondering if someone has some experience with this and knows how long it might take for the ad in the new ad  group to start coming up in its old position.

 

Thanks for any info.

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Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 2
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If I follow you ...

 

so you had a group of phrase matched keywords that were in the 1-3 average position.

 

You took the keyword out and created a new group with exact match keywords? - same setup and the average pos is now 6?

 

What I think you are seeing is just what happens with the exact matched keyword.  You may have been seeing this same behavior before but the numbers are averaged into a group of phrase matched keywords so you may have not noticed it before.  Those phrase matches could expand to other keywords, some of which were likely less expensive than the exact match variation of the keyword because they are less competitive.

 

Can you look through your search terms report in the phrase matched group and see if the exact match keyword in question is in that search terms report and see what your average position was?

 


 



Kim Clink, AdWords Top Contributor | Community Profile | Twitter | Clink Digital Marketing
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Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 3
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Thanks for responding.

 

Yes the exact variation appears in the phrase group and it's position reported  there was 1.3.  It was also dominant among all the variations.  It had 55 impressions,  while there were four other variations shown in See search terms that had 2,1,1 and 1 impression.

 

You seem to be saying that the phrase matched keywords had outliers that were not competitive and so my bid got me top positions there, pushing up the average.  But the volume of the outliers was very thin so their weighted position, it would seem, would not affect the overall average much. 

 

Also,  I'm not comparing the Avg Position reported in the AdWords tables.  I'm comparing the position where the ad actually came back in the SERP. For the phrase-matched group the ad always came back in the top three paid ads above the organic results when I put in  the exact version of the keyword,  and now the same query comes back the third ad down on  the top right, i.e., positioni 6.

 

Do you reject my thought that creating a new ad group, even though it uses the same ad,  erased all the history Google had on the ad had, and so until Google has some confidence in the ad again they will place it lower?.

 

 

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Accepted by Karl (Explorer ✭ ✭ ☆)
September 2015

Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 4
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Hi Stevea,

 

First, please be careful with posting questions multiple times.  Whether or not it was by accident or not, it is against Community Guidelines.  When this happens you end up with split threads etc...it's just more difficult for everyone.

 

"Do you reject my thought that creating a new ad group, even though it uses the same ad,  erased all the history Google had on the ad had, and so until Google has some confidence in the ad again they will place it lower?."

 

It's not Google placing your ad lower due to lack of confidence, it's a new ad with very little history, you may not be scoring as high with Ad Rank and thus landing lower in the ad slots.  It's fairly common knowledge that the history starts anew with new ad groups and ads, but if your clicks keep coming and good performance continues, these ads should get closer to the positions you have seen in your other ad group within a few weeks or so, however long it takes to build up that history again.

 

You mentioned that you are using the same ad in both ad groups.  How do you know which ad is being triggered during your searches? If both ad groups are active, come auction time, phrase matched KW due to history and better QS could still be serving the ads, assuming that your bids are the same.

 

Hope this helps!

 

-Tom

Tommy Sands, AdWords Top Contributor | Community Profile | Twitter | Philly Marketing Labs
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Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 5
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Tom,

 

Thanks for your reply.  First, I responded to your note about duplicate posts on the other thread. I don't know how that happened. So sorry.

 

"You mentioned that you are using the same ad in both ad groups.  How do you know which ad is being triggered during your searches?"

 

I'm not running both.  I paused the first before I enabled the new one.

 

"history starts anew with new ad groups and ads, but if your clicks keep coming and good performance continues, these ads should get closer to the positions you have seen in your other ad group within a few weeks or so, however long it takes to build up that history again."

 

Ouch!  A couple of weeks?   My thought in starting a new ad group, instead of modifying the old one, was to save off the old ad group as a fall back while I strike out with some new keyword ideas, still using the same ad. But dropping from position 2 to 6 for a couple of weeks is unacceptible.  My client is losing thousands of dollars.  It seems to be crucial to not throw away any ad history.  So how do people do the kind of experimenting I want to do?  I guess I need to save off all the old keywords in the existing ad group and keep working within that ad group. 

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Steve

Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 6
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Hi Steve,

 

I just wanted people to end up the the right place, that is all. Smiley Happy

 

I can't say that it will definitely be a couple weeks, it was more a suggestion of 'time'.  Activity and time builds history.

 

You could try an Adwords Experiement for this.

 

-Tom

Tommy Sands, AdWords Top Contributor | Community Profile | Twitter | Philly Marketing Labs
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Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 7
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Hi Steve,

 

I just posted a bit in one of the other threads you started with the same question.

 

As I understand it, you'll need at least 1000 impressions to see the performance of the keyword in your account affect the QS. Until then, the performance of hte keyword accross all accounts is factored into the QS. So it depends on the number of impressions per day you get as to how long it will take to see improvements.

 

One thing you mentioned here and not there is that you paused the phrase match group and are running only the phrase match group. In my mind, this is a mistake! Keep both groups running so you can compare performance of the keywords betweent he groups. You can't compare the results if the timeperiod is different. Things change over time, and there is no way to control those changes. The only way to minimize the effects of these factors is to run both groups at the same time. That way you don't "gut" the entire account performance.

 

As I mentioned over there, the thing you want to do is pull the queries that performed well in the phrase match group and add them as exact match to the exact match group. Those queries will not necessarily be the phrase match keyword, but a variation on those keywords. At the same time, it is usually a good idea to add those exact phrase keywords as negative exact match in the phrase match group. Do this frequently--how frequently depends on the number of impressions the keywords receive.

 

Best of Luck!

 

Pete

 

petebardo -- Deadhead doing AdWords

Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 8
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Thanks to everyone for the great information!

 

Steve