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Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 1
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I'm working on an adwords account that has been running the same ad for several years.  Queries consitetnly brought the ad up in positions 1-3.  But the keywords were all phrase-matched and we were spending a fortune bringing a lot of traffic to our site that really wasn't interested in our product.   Rather than play with negative keywords or start changing the phrase-matched keyword to exact on the old ad group I started a new ad group that used  the same ad but had all exact keywords. That way I can experiment in the new ad group and still have the old ad group, unchanged, to fall back on. But I notice now that a search for one of the exact keywords brings the ad up in position 6 instead of 1-3.  It seems that the ad - the same one that's run for several years -  now a brand new ad to Google that Google doesn't trust yet, so it's starting the ad out ad position 6. The exact keyword is an even closer match to the ad than the old phrase-matched keywords so I don't think a mismatch between keyword and ad is the problem.


I'm just wondering if someone has some experience with this and knows how long it might take for the ad in the new ad  group to start coming up in its old position.


Thanks for any help.

1 Expert replyverified_user

Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

[ Edited ]
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# 2
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Hi stevea,


How about your bids for keywords on the new ad groups ? You know Ad rank depends on Quality Score and Bidding. Are your exact keywords still appearing even old phare match existing? Try to improve your exact match keywords bidding, landing pages, relevant ads. They will come to top early. 


Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

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# 3
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Hi Steve


When you say that the old ad used to appear in positions 1-3 is this based on the average position of the ad or based on you searching for the ad and seeing it in pos. 1-3?


If average position based it could be that your ad never appeared in the top three results for the particular search you are now looking for. The average position could have been increased due to the phrase match triggering less competitive related terms that you were appearing higher for.


If you used to search and physically see the ads then it will more than likely be, as you said, that Google needs to learn about the ad (even though it's a copy). I'm assuming the bids are at similar levels.


What I've done in the past is increase the bids on keywords send traffic to 'new' adcopy to appear in a higher position and send some traffic through the ad. That way Google should be able to trust your ad quicker. After a short period, traffic dependent, you should be able to reduce costs once the history has built up.


Alternatively you could always add the exact matches into the old adgroup, and put the phrase matches in the new adgroup so you have some history built up around the advert.


I would also suggest that you add exact match negative keywords of the new exact keywords into the phrase adgroup so that they are not trying to compete with your exact keywords.


There are a few options to take but all depends on how quickly you want to push the traffic through and if you're willing to spend a bit more in the interim.




Re: Ad lost its position when moved to new ad group

Top Contributor
# 4
Top Contributor

Hi Steve,


When you create a new ad group, everything starts over. The initial QS for a keyword is based on "relevance" of the keyword to the ad copy and the landing page. That would make you think that if you placed the keyword both in the ad copy and on the landing page, you dhould get a gtood QS, but that's not really what it means. Relevance is Google's term for how likely the keyword/ad combination will generate a click.


When creating a new ad group, the performance of the domain overall, the performanc eof your account overall and the performance of the keyword accross all accounts are considered when establishing a QS.. Once you get 1000 impressions for the keyword, the performance of that keyword within the AdGroup becomes the driving factor for QS.


The thing for you to do here is compare the QS of your exact match keywords to the performance of the phrase match keywords. It's a pretty safe bet the phrase match has a better QS. I would also run a search terms report on the phrase match to be sure the exact match phrase is what was triggering impressions. The idea is to take the search queries that have a good CTR (and conversion rate) and add them to the exact match group. Usually, you would bid a bit higher on the exact match to be sure it gets the impressions. If it's not worth a higher bid, no reason to add it to the exact match group.


Best of Luck!




petebardo -- Deadhead doing AdWords