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Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 1
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Hello,

 

I'm looking to setup my first ever campaign in the following way:

 

So the ideal search query would be exactly:

 

  • hire block building company in cityname statename

    OR

  • contract block building company in cityname statename

 

... however I understand that not everyone searches this way, so you need to diversify your keywords + match types to be able to match for as many queries as possible. And here's my dilemma:

 

I'm planning to setup my ad groups and keywords like this:

 

Ad Group 1 + Keyword: [hire block building company in cityname statename]

Ad Group 2 + Keyword: +hire +block +building +company +cityname +statename

Ad Group 3 + Keyword: [hire block building company in cityname]

Ad Group 4 + Keyword: +hire +block +building +company +cityname

Ad Group 5 + Keyword: [hire block building company]

Ad Group 6 + Keyword: +hire +block +building +company

Ad Group 7 + Keyword: [hire block building]

Ad Group 8 + Keyword: +hire +block +building

Ad Group 9 + Keyword: [contract block building company in cityname statename]

Ad Group 10 + Keyword: +contract +block +building +company +cityname +statename

Ad Group 11 + Keyword: [contract block building company in cityname]

Ad Group 12 + Keyword: +contract +block +building +company +cityname

Ad Group 13 + Keyword: [contract block building company]

Ad Group 14 + Keyword: +contract +block +building +company

Ad Group 15 + Keyword: [contract block building]

Ad Group 16 + Keyword: +contract +block +building

 

Ad Group 17 + Keyword: [block building company in cityname statename]

Ad Group 18 + Keyword: +block +building +company +cityname +statename

Ad Group 19 + Keyword: [block building company in cityname]

Ad Group 20 + Keyword: +block +building +company +cityname

Ad Group 21 + Keyword: [block building company]

Ad Group 22 + Keyword: +block +building +company

Ad Group 23 + Keyword: [block building]

Ad Group 24 + Keyword: +block +building

 

I understand that I could've had grouped many of these keywords into single ad groups, but let's run with this example for now, given that everyone of these ad groups would have unique landing page URL's, and different offers (extreme case).

 

My questions are the following:

 

  1. I understand that Ad Group 2 competes with Ad Group 1. Ad Group 4 competes with Ad Group 3,2,1. Ad Group 6 competes with Ad Group 5,4,3,2,1. Ad Group 8 competes with Ad Group 7,6,5,4,3,2,1. Am I correct? Now from my understanding, some from the community have suggested that I setup negatives so that keywords don't compete with one another. I'm having a hard time how the negatives would need to be setup? Would it be on each Ad Group? And how would they be setup so that each ad group doesn't cancel one another out?

  2. In relation to question # 1, how would the negatives be setup when we're using a synonym like "contract" instead of "hire" in Ad Groups 9 - 16?

  3. Is the approach overkill? I mean I understand that I'll have A LOT of dead keywords, but my take on this approach is: you never know how people will search, and from where. So it's good to be setup properly. Right or wrong?

  4. The example above is simply a fraction of the setup I plan to create. I build a variety of tools that allow me to mix and match keywords, and create thousands of unique variations (in the tens of thousands). Since there will be so much data to upload and setup, I plan to use the CSV importer within the Adwords Editor to speed up the campaign creation process. What I'm trying to understand is... how should I setup my max CPC bids? I mean the keyword planner gives me estimates as to how I should bid on certain keywords, but sometimes you see keywords that have low volume and you can bid small amounts. Given that I'm setting this up properly in 1 shot through the CSV import functionality in Adwords Editor, how should I setup my bids for tens of thousands of keywords?

  5. Do I need to use the Google Analytics URL builder with Adwords? Or is data automatically synced given I configured everything properly?

Thanks,

Michal

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Accepted by topic author Michal B
September 2015

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 2
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Hi Michal,

Great questions - here are my thoughts:

 

Adding Negatives

 

  • Since your ad groups are so highly segmented, you will need to add negatives in each group. Keep in mind that if someone searches  yellow car it could match [yellow car], "yellow car", or +yellow +car - To make sure that queries match the intended keyword, you have to set up negatives.  Typically, if people break out their ad groups or campaigns by match type, they will add all of the exact match keywords as negatives in the phrase ad groups. Then they will add all of their phrase keywords and add them as negatives in the broad match ad groups.  This will help ensure that the query is mapped to the correct keyword match type.  That said, your ad groups are even further segmented by separating each keyword into its own ad group, so you would also have to add more negatives to ensure that queries map to the right keyword. For example, if someone searched hire block building company in Chicago Illinois that could map to ad group 1,2,4,6 or 8. It should map to ad group 1, so you'll add the exact match negative of ad group 1 to all other ad groups. Then if someone searches slightly differently - say they search hire block building company in chicago illinois for cheap - that could still map to ad group 2, 4, 6, or 8.  You probably want it to map to ad group 2 (since that's your longest-tail variation and it includes statename), so you should add that keyword as a negative to 4,6 and 8.  In addition to match type negatives, you would need to set up negatives to block out the long tail terms within the short tail ad groups. For instance, block the keywords from ad groups 2,4 and 6 as negatives in ad group 8. Block 2 and 4 in ad group 6. Block 2 in ad group 4.

Is this strategy overkill?

  • I think this strategy is probably overkill.  Depending on your budget and the tools you have at your disposal, it will be really tedious to manage.  Many of your keywords really aren't differentiated enough to warrant their own ad groups.  That's all an opinion, though. Some people do prefer to have a separate ad group for each keyword.  Personally, I would group like keywords by match type, at minimum. Then if performance is especially high or low for any specific keywords, you can consider separating them into their own ad group.

Negatives and synonyms:

  • For ad groups around "hire" you should add the broad match negative "contract" and vice versa, in order to control minor changes in keyword intent

 

Bids

  • Typically I tier bids on match type and on intent.  The lower funnel the term is (you can generally tell by the number of keywords in the phrase and by words they use such as "buy" or in your case "hire") the higher I will bid. I tend to bid higher on exact than broad, although your modified broad terms are highly modified so they should be very relevant.  I can't really tell you what to set your bids at but I would use the AdWords estimates as a guide and see where you land as far as position.

 

URL Tags

  • As long as you enable auto-tagging in your settings and link your AdWords/Analytics accounts, you don't need to build each of the URLs individually

 

One other note to keep in mind - if you launch thousands of keywords at once, bear in mind that each of those keywords will spend a little bit before they convert.  I'm not sure what your goal CPA is but if you launch 10,000 keywords and they each spend a dollar, you've spent $10,000 and likely don't have any conversions.  I only say that as a warning in launching a new account that is hyper-segmented. You may want to phase launch based upon the keywords you expect to perform the best.  If you have an existing account with a strong foundation, then it may not matter because it will average out the new terms but just a thought!

 

Hope this helps!

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Accepted by topic author Michal B
September 2015

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 2
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Hi Michal,

Great questions - here are my thoughts:

 

Adding Negatives

 

  • Since your ad groups are so highly segmented, you will need to add negatives in each group. Keep in mind that if someone searches  yellow car it could match [yellow car], "yellow car", or +yellow +car - To make sure that queries match the intended keyword, you have to set up negatives.  Typically, if people break out their ad groups or campaigns by match type, they will add all of the exact match keywords as negatives in the phrase ad groups. Then they will add all of their phrase keywords and add them as negatives in the broad match ad groups.  This will help ensure that the query is mapped to the correct keyword match type.  That said, your ad groups are even further segmented by separating each keyword into its own ad group, so you would also have to add more negatives to ensure that queries map to the right keyword. For example, if someone searched hire block building company in Chicago Illinois that could map to ad group 1,2,4,6 or 8. It should map to ad group 1, so you'll add the exact match negative of ad group 1 to all other ad groups. Then if someone searches slightly differently - say they search hire block building company in chicago illinois for cheap - that could still map to ad group 2, 4, 6, or 8.  You probably want it to map to ad group 2 (since that's your longest-tail variation and it includes statename), so you should add that keyword as a negative to 4,6 and 8.  In addition to match type negatives, you would need to set up negatives to block out the long tail terms within the short tail ad groups. For instance, block the keywords from ad groups 2,4 and 6 as negatives in ad group 8. Block 2 and 4 in ad group 6. Block 2 in ad group 4.

Is this strategy overkill?

  • I think this strategy is probably overkill.  Depending on your budget and the tools you have at your disposal, it will be really tedious to manage.  Many of your keywords really aren't differentiated enough to warrant their own ad groups.  That's all an opinion, though. Some people do prefer to have a separate ad group for each keyword.  Personally, I would group like keywords by match type, at minimum. Then if performance is especially high or low for any specific keywords, you can consider separating them into their own ad group.

Negatives and synonyms:

  • For ad groups around "hire" you should add the broad match negative "contract" and vice versa, in order to control minor changes in keyword intent

 

Bids

  • Typically I tier bids on match type and on intent.  The lower funnel the term is (you can generally tell by the number of keywords in the phrase and by words they use such as "buy" or in your case "hire") the higher I will bid. I tend to bid higher on exact than broad, although your modified broad terms are highly modified so they should be very relevant.  I can't really tell you what to set your bids at but I would use the AdWords estimates as a guide and see where you land as far as position.

 

URL Tags

  • As long as you enable auto-tagging in your settings and link your AdWords/Analytics accounts, you don't need to build each of the URLs individually

 

One other note to keep in mind - if you launch thousands of keywords at once, bear in mind that each of those keywords will spend a little bit before they convert.  I'm not sure what your goal CPA is but if you launch 10,000 keywords and they each spend a dollar, you've spent $10,000 and likely don't have any conversions.  I only say that as a warning in launching a new account that is hyper-segmented. You may want to phase launch based upon the keywords you expect to perform the best.  If you have an existing account with a strong foundation, then it may not matter because it will average out the new terms but just a thought!

 

Hope this helps!

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 3
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Hey Amy,

Thanks for your help. Ok so I understood perfectly the negatives logic. Here's my take on it:

 

  1. Since Adwords rewards for higher QS, I figured that this would be the best way to setup the account really properly from the get go, and then work at filtering, rather than having to rethink which keywords and combinations I may be missing in the future.

  2. This strategy is a bit more tedious (and I have some awesome tools built to help me), but I figured that I should get it done once, properly and work with a strong foundation.


In the case I begin to realize that it's overkill (usually once you start to do the work I presume), you recommend that option 2 is to group keywords by match type, so ad groups would be as the following..?:

 

Ad Group 1:

 

[hire block building company in cityname statename]

[hire block building company in cityname]

[hire block building company]

[hire block building]

[contract block building company in cityname statename]

[contract block building company in cityname]

[contract block building company]

[contract block building]

[block building company in cityname statename]

[block building company in cityname]

[block building company]

[block building]

 

 

Ad Group # 2:

 

hire +block +building +company +cityname +statename

hire +block +building +company +cityname

hire +block +building +company

hire +block +building

contract +block +building +company +cityname +statename

contract +block +building +company +cityname

contract +block +building +company

contract +block +building

+block +building +company +cityname +statename

+block +building +company +cityname

+block +building +company

+block +building

 

My questions regarding this latter strategy:

 

  1. Aren't some keywords competing with one another with this method? How would negatives be setup in this case?

  2. Since landing pages are set on an ad group level, technically the "hire" and "contract" combinations have a different confidence level that the person searching is in a "buying" mode, therefore shouldn't the ad copy + landing page be different? Also would my QS be lower this way since I'm not necessarily including as relevant of keywords on the landing page? Hence higher CPC?

  3. Am I over analyzing this?

  4. As far as your notes regarding the possibility of spending large sums due to the hyper-segmented nature of the campaign: Depending on the market of course (and in our case) I doubt that this can occur, because a lot of the keywords I think would turn our to be very low impression given that we may target on a local level at first, and it's within a competitive segment of the market, which doesn't necessarily get all that many searches for the services. They're there kind of for "backup purposes" where the odd case where someone does search it, the ad will show up, and the CPC may be ridiculously low? Would that be a correct statement to make?

Let me know!

Thanks,


Michal

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 4
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You're right - it's good to set up ad groups in a granular fashion to try to ensure the highest QS possible but I think you can group some keywords together to make management a little easier.

You could even break out your ad group examples a little bit further. (For instance you could still keep hire/contract/etc split separately). I just wouldn't put only 1 kw per ad group.

Your keywords will still be competing with eachother but not nearly as much. You can go ahead and implement the negative strategy by match type, which will take care of it if you keep the ad groups as you have them in the second example. If you go ahead and separate hire/contract, you might want to add those as negatives but they shouldn't really compete too much.

You can set landing pages at the keyword level, so don't worry too much about that. It is easier to manage at the ad level, though. I would worry more about make sure the ad copy is relevant to the whole ad group.

As for your last question, I would agree that the longer tail the keywords will probably be low volume, so it may not be a big deal. Not necessarily cheaper, though - generally I find that if there's enough search volume for an auction, the CPCs are typically somewhat competitive.

Hope this helps!

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 5
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Thanks Amy.

I just set up a first small campaign and it seems good. I made some mistakes with negatives which were conflicting with some keywords, and Adwords notified me + gave me an easy way to fix the mistakes!

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 6
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Great! Glad to hear it! Just a heads up - I should've warned you before - when you use negative keywords to map match types, sometimes it tells you that you have conflicting negatives when it really isn't a problem.

If it tells you that having an exact match negative in a phrase match ad group, you can ignore it. Same for a phrase match negative in a broad match ad group. It is blocking traffic but it is by design. Just keep that in mind as warnings arise!

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

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# 7
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Glad you brought this up, because I've been getting "A negative keyword is preventing your ad from showing." errors on many of my ads. Is this what you were referring to? Or should I recheck my negatives again?

Re: Advanced approach: a bunch of questions for power users.

[ Edited ]
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# 8
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Hmm this drives an extra question. I understand the logic for negatives in the case where ads are split up in separate ad groups, however I need clarification on how these negatives should be formatted.

 

Let's take this example (all these keywords are setup in separate ad groups):

 

Ad Group 9 + Keyword: [contract block building company in cityname statename]

Ad Group 10 + Keyword: +contract +block +building +company +cityname +statename

Ad Group 11 + Keyword: [contract block building company in cityname]

Ad Group 12 + Keyword: +contract +block +building +company +cityname

Ad Group 13 + Keyword: [contract block building company]

Ad Group 14 + Keyword: +contract +block +building +company

Ad Group 15 + Keyword: [contract block building]

Ad Group 16 + Keyword: +contract +block +building

 

Let's take Ad Group 16 for example. The negatives in this case would need to be:

 

+contract +block +building +company

+contract +block +building +company +cityname +statename

[contract block building]

[contract block building company]

[contract block building company in cityname statename]

 

 

However, would I enter the negatives exactly like that? Or would I just include the additional terms, so:

 

+company

+company +cityname +statename

[contract block building]

[contract block building company]

[contract block building company in cityname statename]

 

The reason why I'm asking is because something looks fishy in the first campaign I setup. All my ads/keywords are approved, but some of the BMM keywords say that ads aren't running for the following reason: "A negative keyword is preventing your ad from showing." Which is making me think that since I didn't cut out +contract +block +building out of the negative +contract +block +building +company, that it's preventing my ad from displaying since the keyword can't trigger an ad?

 

Thanks!

Michal