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BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

[ Edited ]
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 1
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

Hello,

 

To avoid proloning a thread , I have posted this question separately.

 

I have been able to type the BMM keyword in the "Negative keywords list" but signals from experts are that this keyword will be interpreted differently by the system, and it will block also search terms which match a  simple broad format of the negative keyword such as synonyms.

 

Now :

1) Is this story "negative BMM converted to negative BM" explained anywhere "in the manual" ?

2) what would be some examples of search terms and keywords which could ilustrate if this scenario works :

1 ad group

1 BM keyword 3 words

1 negative BMM keyword 3 words ( same words as the normal keyword)

 

Result : a search term can demonstrate that the BMM negative keyword behaves as a BM negative keyword, for example blocking search terms with synonims . Basically that the adwords engine ignores the + signs from such a negative keyword.

 

----------

How to recognize that a keyword behaves like a BM not like a BMM ? It matches also search terms including the following variations not included in the BMM set of combinations :  synonyms or related searches.

 

Quote from here : https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497828?hl=en

under "Use broad match modifier for more control over broad match"

3 Expert replyverified_user

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Top Contributor
# 2
Top Contributor
Adrian,

I've read through about 10 pages here and on the other two threads, and I'm lost as to what you're not understanding. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this is just coming to light for you now.

Negative matching is NOT the same as positive matching.

You will have to use every possible search term as a negative to completely shut off a broad match keyword - and I think I read somewhere already mentioned that this seems a bit odd to actually use on a running account. If you're bidding on keywords, regardless of match types, they should mean something to you...right and therefore not be blocked by negatives?

Not everything is black and white, and "in the manual" I think you've probably seen this a time or two by now.

What are the folks in Romainian and Italian forums saying about this topic...have you posted it there at all yet?

-Tommy
Tommy Sands, AdWords Top Contributor | Community Profile | Twitter | Philly Marketing Labs
Did you find any helpful responses or answers to your query? If yes, please mark it as the ‘Best Answer.’

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 3
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

I can have only one reaction to sarcastic replies , that is to ignore them .

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Top Contributor
# 4
Top Contributor

Well, it seems you don't understand what ignoring is either. Smiley Happy

 

You're not getting it when people (I'm talking 30+ years of experience) explain what's happening to you over and over again, I'm failing to understand what else you need. Numerous people have suggested solutions and explanations to what you're experiencing and experimenting on and you still don't want to accept them.  

 

What is it that will help you understand better?

 

-Tommy

Tommy Sands, AdWords Top Contributor | Community Profile | Twitter | Philly Marketing Labs
Did you find any helpful responses or answers to your query? If yes, please mark it as the ‘Best Answer.’

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Top Contributor Alumni
# 5
Top Contributor Alumni

HI Adrian,

I am afraid but this is not a court of law and we are not lawyers. I think its high time to stop this unproductive debate and move on. 


Personally I with @PPCBossman on this and the sarcastic reaction is only result of you opening multiple threads on same subject. I had thought about replying on original thread several times and didnt post my replies even after typing them  as i didnt want to get in to futile argument.

 

I have learned my lesson and I am not going to get myself involved in any more unproductive debates, I just couldnt stop myself responding to this one.

 

 

Regards, Nik
LinkedIn  |   @nikhilparachure | My Blog

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 6
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

Yes this is an answer, I could "go away" as you two are suggesting, maybe to other forums.

 

I have never seen anyone before to jump in a thread just to say that they do not want to answer Smiley Happy

 

But I still have hope that regular contributors can intersect with my thread. I did not call out for any particular person to answer .

 

For the record, the previous question was about "why do I receive traffic in this setup". This current question is more related to "what kind of traffic will I receive with this setup", assuming I am allowed to understand what traffic will I pay for. "Court of law" or "lawyers" do not fit the picture of a simple question about negative match.

 

My questions still remain if anyone else wants to read the first message in this thread. Preferably by providing an example such as Neha did here : link

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Top Contributor Alumni
# 7
Top Contributor Alumni

 

1) Is this story "negative BMM converted to negative BM" explained anywhere "in the manual" ?

 

We have no idea. This Community is not responsible for the online AdWords Help content.

 

I would recommend that you go review the content of the Help files to see if you find the information you're interested in. If you do not find it, every page of the Help website has a link where you can provide feedback to the team responsible for the content.

 

2) what would be some examples of search terms and keywords which could ilustrate if this scenario works :

1 ad group

1 BM keyword 3 words

1 negative BMM keyword 3 words ( same words as the normal keyword)

 

To repeat my original post in the original discussion, there's no telling what this might produce.No one here is likely to know because, forgive me if I am blunt, this is not a strategy that an account manager focused on producing success is likely to think of. 

 

At a guess, I'd say it would produce very low quality traffic for the advertiser. 

 

If you're really curious, go ahead and try it in a client's account, if the client gives permission to spend money on this kind of traffic.

 

I would suspect that if you tested this and left the Ad Group active for a reasonable amount of time you would be able to figure out any existing pattern(s) for yourself. (If you test it, you would certainly want to wait until the Ad Group had collected a couple of thousand searches or so--anything less is not going to be statistically significant and even 2,000 impressions may not be statistically significant in whatever market you're serving.)

 

Bear in mind, of course, that any patterns you see in one client's specific industry are not likely to be duplicated in any other industry, so whatever results you get are likely to be appropriate for only that one client's industry.

 

 


Theresa
Google AdWords Top Contributor
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 8
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

The usefulness is there, my aim is to mine for new keywords from search terms resulting from this setup because of low traffic obtained by BMM keywords.

So far the clicks from today were very good long tail keywords, many from 4 or 5 words.

 

It seems that the negative simple broad will block too much traffic this is why I found the BMM negative usage tempting to avoid blocking synonims at least.

 

Things are very simple, if there is a rule written somewhere that for the negative form ,the simple broad match does not match synonims or related search terms, it reduces it to what the BMM negative could do.

 

Is a simple broad negative red car not blocking search terms for synonims such as red vehicle ? And also not blocking related searches such as coloured car if the keyword is also red car ?

 

I searched high and low in the help pages, expanded everything and cannot find this. I am not saying it is not true, but I cannot give in to blind faith, no matter how many say the same. 

 

Is it written somewhere that this happens : negative simple broad negative not matching synonims or related search terms) ?

 

If the negative broad match does not match all search terms which it matched as a "positive keyword" than I should expect these 2 slices of traffic 

 

1) traffic containing only 1 word from the simple broad

2) traffic containing synonims and related searches ( not blocked by the same simple broad added as a negative)

 

Am I expressing my self in a too entangled manner ?

Marked as Best Answer.
Solution
Accepted by topic author Adrian B
September 2015

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

[ Edited ]
Top Contributor Alumni
# 9
Top Contributor Alumni

It seems that the negative simple broad will block too much traffic this is why I found the BMM negative usage tempting to avoid blocking synonims at least.

 

Negative keywords do not  block synonyms. Synonyms are not a part of negative keyword blocking in any way.

 

Using simple Broad match for a positive keyword invites synonyms. if you do not want those synonyms, use Modified Broad match for your positive keyword and negative keywords for the precise synonyms you want to block--using those in combination tends to produce the best results.

 

Things are very simple, if there is a rule written somewhere that for the negative form ,the simple broad match does not match synonims or related search terms, it reduces it to what the BMM negative could do.

 

Whether or not a rule is "written" does not change whether or not a rule exists.

 

As I said in the other discussion, "negative Broad match" has always behaved like a "modified" Broad--that is, it has always blocked only searches with all of the precise words included in the negative keyword. Thus, trying to use a "modifier" on a negative Broad match keyword is a waste of time. The system is not programmed to recognize the + as a negative keyword modifier and it ignores it.

 

Is a simple broad negative red car not blocking search terms for synonims such as red vehicle ? And also not blocking related searches such as coloured car if the keyword is also red car ?

 

No, it is not.

 

I searched high and low in the help pages, expanded everything and cannot find this. I am not saying it is not true, but I cannot give in to blind faith, no matter how many say the same. 

 

 

As I said previously, if you don't find the information you're looking for in the Help center, you can use the feedback link to report that direction to the team responsible for the Help center content.

 

I understand that you do not believe what we are telling you is "true" unless there is specific Help center content that says the same thing. I would suggest that reporting the absence of this information to the Help center team is the only way to get those pages of Help content reviewed and updated.

 

I would also suggest that if multiple people here in the Community all give you the same information but you cannot find that information in the Help center that you always report it to the Help center directly. We are not going to change what we say (or what is 'true') simply because the Help center does not cover the answer to your question in the kind of detail you're looking for. Asking us over and over will not change our answers--and it won't change the Help center information if you don't provide that team with feedback.

 

If the negative broad match does not match all search terms which it matched as a "positive keyword" than I should expect these 2 slices of traffic 

 

1) traffic containing only 1 word from the simple broad

2) traffic containing synonims and related searches ( not blocked by the same simple broad added as a negative)

 

I am sorry, but I did not understand this part of your question. Can you rephrase it?


Theresa
Google AdWords Top Contributor
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Re: BMM negative keyword is interpreted as a negative BM and why ?

Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭
# 10
Collaborator ✭ ✭ ✭

I think I get a clear picture now of "what traffic to expect", not in terms of quality but in terms of "how much from the simple broad is isolated/blocked " .

 

Please correct me if I am wrong : In a setup where a 3 words simple broad keyword is used and the same keyword is added as negative the following traffic is invited by the BM keyword and not rejected by the BM negative :

 

1) search terms with synonims and related searches, are invided by the positive BM and not blocked by the negative BM  .

 

2) plurals and singular combinations not included in the form I have written the BM negative .

 

Example negative keyword : red car , example allowed search term red cars

 

 

3) instances when the search term contains any words from the BM keyword but not all . 

 

Example negative BM keyword red car , example matched search term expensive car

 

Car is found in the search term but red is not found so search term can be matched.

 

My confusion originated from the fact that some have told me that the BMM i tested as a negative will work as a broad match when in fact it is the negative broad match behaving like a BMM, having limited options in the negative form.

 

It is not the BMM set of variants behaving like a larger broad match set of variants, it is the larger BM set of variants reduced by applying it to the negative list. I did not understand how a supposedly smaller set of BMM variants cand be expanded to all BM variants. This is also why I thought that adding the negative simple broad would block all traffic from the positive simple broad.

 

Thank you very much for your time and very clear explanation. I will follow the suggestion of completing the feedback on the help center.