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1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

[ Edited ]
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# 1
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Hello,

 

I have tested a new ad group, with 1 keyword in simple broad and the same keyword in the BMM variant as negative ( besides the exact and phrase match negatives). According to 3 opinions the BMM negative should behave like a simple broad negative, thus canceling impressions from this ad group, but I have received impressions and by tommorow probably even clicks. 

 

Why is the simple broad receiving traffic in this setup ? Is it because it allows synonims on top of the BMM negative variant ?

 

See screenshot below ( right click and choose open in new window for a larger size)

 

simple-broad-minus-bmm.png

 

Thanks for any straight explanation, if there is any.

 

Why am I asking this ? 

1) To avoid poluting another person's thread with my personal technical dilema

2) to gain more knowledge about how simple broad works vs bmm

3) not to contradict anyone

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Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 2
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Good morning.

 

I'm not sure how much help anyone can be. The forum is mostly focused on answering questions about real-world situations. What you've described isn't something I can imagine anyone using in a real-world campaign. (I don't believe the AdWords system even recognizes "modified broad match" as a negative keyword type. It's more likely that the system is ignoring your + signs and just usingthe word/phrase as the negative.)

 

The reason your example got traffic is because the AdWords system assumes that any Ad Group that is set up is a good faith desire to serve ads. The system is designed to serve advertisers' ads and it works hard to do that. I would caution you that setting up odd and unlikely "experiments" just to try and learn more about the system (as opposed to tests designed to learn about the market/industry you're advertising) are unlikely to produce reasonable results. 

 

As to what traffic was served, you would have to wait until your search query data populates and look at that data for yourself, to figure out what searches triggered your ad. That should tell you what types of searches this unusual setup serves.

 

The difference between Broad match and Modified Broad match is quite simple--there's nothing hidden and no "tricks" to either of them. The reason your Ad Group served traffic is because the range of searches restricted by negative keywords is narrower than the range of searches invited by the use of positive keywords. This is deliberate--the system is designed, as I said, to serve ads, not to prevent ads from serving except in situations where the advertiser precisely requests blocking.


Theresa
Google AdWords Top Contributor
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Accepted by topic author Adrian B
September 2015

Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

[ Edited ]
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# 3
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Hi Adrian,

 

I can't see clearly the example which you have in the screenshot, therfore I am adding example from my side,

 

Postive keyword broad: blue shoes

Negative keyword bmm: +blue +shoes

Negative Keyword Exact: [blue shoes]

Negative Keyword Phrase: "blue shoes"

 

In this case, In my opinion bmm negative works as broad and will not stop showing ads completly.
It will show up for the keywords which include either blue or shoes in the search query. It won't show if the search query will have both terms "blue" & "shoes" in the search query in any order.

 

May be others can shed some light and confirm this.

 

Edit: As Theresa said, please wait for the search query!

 

Thanks

Neha

 

Neha Gupta, AdWordsTop Contributor Follow Me: My Blog | Twitter | Google+ | LinkedIn
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Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 4
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The issue is different here; When you add  KWs as negatives based on mach types; only exact match would work; You should have received an error message on that; (Though I  haven't tried to add the SAME broad mach also as a negative)

So, in this specific case, what I think is happening is that synonyms are triggering your ad or phrase match. 

 

The easy way to check is to look at the search terms report once you have clicks;

Moshe, AdWords Top Contributor , Twitter | Linkedin | Community Profile | Ad-Globe
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Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 5
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Interesting, so a theory would be that the negative keywords are somehow limited and the "positive keywords" have priority.

 

Here is the thread initiated by a person here in the forum trying to "isolate the simple broad" traffic so it is a real world problem.

 

https://www.en.adwords-community.com/t5/Improve-results/How-to-isolate-broad-match/m-p/314757/highli...

 

Adding BMM as a negative works.

 

Synonims matched by the simple broad variant and not by bmm shouldn't be the reason why i get traffic in this setup ?

 

Thanks.

Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 6
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Thanks, i will look at search terms in a few days and report back. To view the picture bigger, right click and select open in new tab ( option in chrome) 

 

My keyword is translated as "recruitment companies", it should be popular and gaining synonyms traffic soon.

 

Adding the negative BMM did not work in the first keyword tab, because the minus sign does not make sense with the plus sign of the first word in BMM . It did work to add the BMM at the ad group level though , without using the minus sign.

 

Even if it is an unusual setup, it can be useful for gaining traffic when the geo location is too small even for BMM variations.

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September 2015

Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 7
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Interesting, so a theory would be that the negative keywords are somehow limited and the "positive keywords" have priority.

 

No, I would not say that is a theory. It's a fact. The "reach" of negative keywords is not as wide as the reach of positive keywords. That is, as I said, because the system is designed to serve ads.

 

And I stand by my statement that the AdWords system does not recognize Modified Broad match as a negative keyword type. The system will ignore the punctuation and 'read' only the words. 

 

However, it would be more precise to say that AdWords has always used a MBM approach to broad match negatives--blocking only queries with (all) the precise words in the negative phrase but not the wider range of searches that that keyword might serve, if used as a positive Broad match. Thus, your use of the + modifier in a negative keyword is not only ignored by the system, it's redundant.


Theresa
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Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 8
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So; Adrian; as for BMM as negative,  you should be now all se:t after in the original discussion (you linked)  @Neha Gupta @theniks and I said that BMM would not work as negative, now also @Theresa_Zook 's practice  shows the same.

 

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Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 9
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So what I understand from message 7 from Theresa :

 

1) The + signs are ignored when adding negative keywords, transforming negative BMM expression in a simple string of words equal in function to a simple broad, but limited in reach because it is in the negative group.

 

This raises 2 more questions for me, but we can avoid answering to them , as they will not explain the traffic.

     1.1 ) Does the "ignore punctuation for negative BMM" mean that the other match type operators are also ignored and phrase match and exact negative do not work as I write them in the negative keywords window ?

 

     1.2 ) Why does it say here : link  "one of the four keyword matching options that is used to describe negative keywords."    if there are only 3 types of negative matching options ?

 

2) When I am trying to interpret "blocking only queries with (all) the precise words in the negative phrase but not the wider range of searches that that keyword might serve, "   You are saying that a negative "simple broad match" will block only search terms containing all the words from the keyword, as if the negative "simple broad match" is acting as BMM  ?

 

3) Then why exactly do I still see traffic, is it because the search terms do not contain "(all) the precise words" and are synonims served by the simple broad ?

 

4) Am I seeing traffic in this setup because certain search terms ignore the "simple broad negative keyword" in order to serve more traffic to the "simple broad" positive keyword, even if the search terms do not represent synonims ?

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September 2015

Re: 1 Simple Broad KW , same KW as negative BMM, still traffic , why ?

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# 10
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The explanation is pretty simple: "positive broad match" is wider than negative broad match: http://adwords.blogspot.com/2007/11/adwords-optimization-tips-more-on.html

As for the plus sign and its effects, I think you should check out the Ad Preview Tool and see if you still see ads for a search query with plus signs in front of the terms. If they're considered, then only searches including the plus sign are blocked. If they're not considered, they will also block the search query without them and your setup will only show for synonyms and variations.

My 2 cents.
Calin Sandici, AdWords Top Contributor | Find me on: Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | myBlog
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